From: margot@cnwl.igs.net (David) Newsgroups: alt.algebra.help,k12.ed.math,sci.math Subject: math and music: Chopin Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 06:38:23 GMT Somw time ago the question was raised on a Scientific American article about a mathematical analysis of Chopin's music. Sorry for the cross-posting, but I lost track of the original query. Here is the response from SCI. AM. : Date sent: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 09:13:18 -0500 From: Scientific Editors The article you are looking for appeared in April 1982, page 16, under "Metamagical Themes" by Douglas Hofstadter. Sincerely, The Editors ....Many thanks to the Scientific American staff for this information.... ============================================================================== From: Tony@stsm.demon.co.uk (Tony Pay) Newsgroups: alt.algebra.help,k12.ed.math,sci.math Subject: Re: math and music: Chopin Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 17:25:13 GMT In article <32c9e543.7045217@news1.radix.net>, mathtutor@radix.net (Art Burke) wrote: > I would like to know in what fashion that they analyzed the music of > Chopin mathematically? > I would compare Bach and early to mid classical music to mathematics > long before I'd even dare to compare Chopin to mathematics. > I love Chopin but, OOOOH, mathematics? > I think we may have a few over-zealous and unqualified nerds > attempting to step into a field that they shouldn't even "THINK" of > being in!!! No, I'm sure that if you read the article you wouldn't think this. Hofstadter talks about rhythmic patterning in Chopin, showing how it contributes not only to the organisation but to the emotional power of the music. While in a sense the article demystifies some of the processes in Chopin (simply by showing how the rhythms are constructed), it is very humble in its approach. Hofstadter is a stunningly perceptive writer, and though he is extraordinarily talented at clarifying seemingly complex ideas, he knows when something is a mystery. The article, ringing with his own passion for this music throughout, ends: "...In another way, though, Chopin's music is universal, so that even his most deeply Polish pieces - the mazurkas and the polonaises - speak to a common set of emotions in everyone. But what *are* these emotions? How are they so deeply evoked by mere pattern? What is the secret magic of Chopin? I know of no more burning question." You can find the article reprinted in his book, Metamagical Themas - Questing for the Essence of Mind and Pattern, 1985, published by Basic Books, or perhaps by Viking Penguin, depending where you are. I thoroughly recommend it, as indeed I do the rest of the book. (As indeed I do all his work, for that matter.) Tony -- _________ Tony Pay |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@stsm.demon.co.uk | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE tel/fax 01865 553339 ... New strain of system-trashing virus : WINDOWS ============================================================================== From: Tony@stsm.demon.co.uk (Tony Pay) Newsgroups: alt.algebra.help,k12.ed.math,sci.math Subject: Re: math and music: Chopin Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 22:19:33 GMT In article <5aq0bf$9d5$4@nntp.igs.net>, margot@cnwl.igs.net (David) wrote: > "Dave B." wrote: > >Art Burke wrote in article > ><32ce0f7b.1672382@news1.radix.net>... > >: > Chopin is one of my favourite classical composers. > >: > >: Oops! Big time OOPPPSS! > >: > My ONLY interest here was to supply some information. In future, if > you or anyone wants such you will have to find it for yourself. It > took some effort to dig up the article. Hardly worth the effort for > this kind of ignorant response. Don't feel like that, David. I was very happy to be reminded of the article, and immediately went and read it again, with great enjoyment. There is an interesting article by Marvin Minsky, another AI researcher, which you can find in ftp://ftp.ai.mit.edu/pub/minsky/MusicMindMeaning. Minsky, like Hofstadter, is also a musician, but this article is more theoretical than the Chopin article. He has some illuminating things to say about Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, though. Tony -- _________ Tony Pay |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@stsm.demon.co.uk | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE tel/fax 01865 553339 ... Drive C: Error, (A)bort (R)etry (I)gnore (K)ick (S)cream ==============================================================================