[Update 1999/06/22: I see I mistyped the problem in the analysis! The poster asked about d = 41*73 and I provided an answer but stated I was analyzing the case d = 43*71. I was, in fact, analyzing the correct problem. However, for completeness I now also address the case d=43*71 by the same analysis, at the end of the file. -- djr] ============================================================================== From: rusin@olympus.math.niu.edu (Dave Rusin) Newsgroups: sci.math Subject: Re: Diophanto Eq Date: 31 Dec 1996 19:26:49 GMT sfly (b841039@math.ntu.edu.tw) wrote: > how to solve the eq.......x^4-d*y^2=1 where d=41*73 > and , is ther there rational numbers a,b,c such that > a^2-b^2=b^2-c^2=d (d=41*73) There are no nontrivial solutions in either case, although this conclusion is harder to come by than is typical in these questions. Hauke Reddmann wrote: >Elliptic Curves (move x=1,y=0 to infinity) >a+b=d/l >a-b=l >b+c=d/m >b-c=m >d/l-l=d/m+m >Which is again an elliptic curve after a bit >variable rewriting. This is the way to go. Let's look at the second system of equations first. As Hauke noted, the equations may be rewritten d/l-l=d/m+m ; upon multiplying by l*m we obtain a cubic equation which may be expressed as an elliptic curve in standard form. Indeed, using the invertible transformation {l=d*(X-d)/Y, m=X*(X-d)/Y} the equation becomes 2 Y = X (X - d) (X + d) This equation clearly has solutions with Y=0 (namely X=0, X= +- d, and the "point at infinity"). But these don't correspond to solutions (l,m) of Hauke's pair of equations, nor to solutions (a,b,c) of the original pair. Now, the points on an elliptic curve form a finitely-generated abelian group; these four points are merely the torsion subgroup. What's really interesting is the question of whether this group has positive rank. There are a number of algorithms which enable us to estimate the rank of a general elliptic curve over the rational field, but these don't give sufficiently strong upper bounds for our particular curve. However, curves of the form described above are precisely those involved in Tunnell's resolution (sort of) of the "congruent number problem". Tunnell proves that there is a more-or-less complete algorithm which can tell us at least whether the rank of the curve is positive or not. Here's the test (for d square-free). Count the number of integer solutions (x,y,z) to the equation 2x^2 + y^2 + 8z^2 = d. Let c1 be the number of such solutions. Let c2 be the number of such solutions with z even. Then if the elliptic curve y^2=x(x^2-d^2) has positive rank, we must have c1 = 2 c2. (The converse is probably true,too). Unless I miscounted, there are for d=43*71 exactly c1=96 solutions but only c2=40 with z even, so by Tunnell's theorem, the rank of this elliptic curve is zero. The only points are the torsion points, and so there are no solutions to the original equations. Now we can address sfly's other equation. Again, Hauke's suggestion is fine: using the invertible transformation {y=4*Y/(X-2*d)^2, x=(X+2*d)/(X-2*d)} the equation becomes 2 2 2 Y = X (X + (2 d) ) While this curve is not of the type covered directly by Tunnell's theorem, it happens to be isogenous to the first curve we considered. (That is, there are homomorphisms E -> E' and E' -> E whose composites are the doubling maps on each curve). In particular, these two elliptic curves have the same rank, which we have shown to be zero. Thus again the only points on this curve are the torsion points, which can be checked to be only the point (X,Y)=(0,0) and the point at infinity (unless d=1). In terms of the original coordinates, this means the only rational solutions are (x,y) = (+-1, 0). Of course, if you start with a different value of d, then the situation can be quite different. I'm glad you didn't suggest d=157. dave ============================================================================== [Update 1999/06/22: Here we treat an alternative problem. -- djr] If d = 43*71, then c1=c2=0 so we expect these curves to have positive rank. A simple computation with APECS or MWRANK finds the elliptic curve in question to have rank 1, and finds an element of infinite order (presumably a generator of the torsion-free part of the Mordell-Weil group): P = [169771267/14161, 2139128217120/1685159]. Working backwards from this one solution leads to l=10248637/476880, m=2410231/28560, a=11258184984239/137672394720, b = 8299464974161/137672394720, and c = -3318961972561/137672394720. There are infinitely many solutions, of course, found by carrying out the substitutions starting from all points P' = n.P + T for any integer n and any of the four torsion points T. Since this curve has rank 1, it follows that the other curve 2-isogenous to it also has rank 1; applying a 2-isogeny to the known point P provides a point on this curve too: Q = [626817319142400/55910021209, 17869773239282241366720/13220092244931677] which we substitute back to find a solution x = 11258184984239/3318961972561 y = 2285214435775015585659840/11015508575306004116898721 to x^4-d*y^2=1 where d=43*71.